Feb 22

An Open Letter to Venues That Exploit Their Musicians

The below post has earned quite alot of attention over the last seven weeks.  Full-time saxophonist, Dave Goldberg, wrote an honest letter to venue owners addressing their disregard and exploitation of the working musicians.  The post is powerful and I asked David if I could republish this article on Grassrootsy. I’m hoping that you’ll read this and think about what part you play. Venues can take advantage of you, but only if you let them. [original post]

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As Ive been looking for gigs lately, I’ve never seen so many free and low paying gigs. Well the economy is bad, so I can understand that a little bit. However, it is no longer good enough for the musician to be willing to perform for little compensation. Now we are expected to also be the venue promoter? The expectations are that the band will not only provide great music, but also bring lots of people to their venue. It is now the band’sresponsibility to make this happen, not the club owner.

Just the other day I was told by someone who owned a wine bar that they really liked our music and would love for us to play at their place. She then told me the gig paid $75 for a trio. Now $75 used to be bad money per person, let alone $75 for the whole band. It had to be a joke, right? No, she was serious. But it didn’t end there. She then informed us we had to bring 25 people minimum. Didn’t even offer us extra money if we brought 25 people. I would have laughed other than it’s not the first time I’ve gotten this proposal from club owners. But are there musicians really doing this? Yes. They are so desperate to play, they will do anything. But let’s think about this for a second and turn this around a little bit.

What if I told the wine bar owner that I have a great band and we are going to play at my house. I need someone to provide and pour wine while we play. I can’t pay much, just $75, and you must bring at least 25 people who are willing to pay a $10 cover charge at the door. Now wouldn’t they look at you like you are crazy?

“Why would I do that?” they would ask. Well because it’s great exposure for you and your wine bar. The people there would see how well you pour wine and see how good your wine is. Then they would come out to your wine bar sometime.  ”But I brought all the people myself, I already know them”, they would say. Well maybe you could make up some professional looking flyers, pass them out, and get people you don’t know to come on out. ”But you are only paying me $75. How can I afford to make up flyers?”

You see how absurd this sounds, but musicians do this all the time. If they didn’t, then the club owners wouldn’t even think of asking us to do it. So this sounds like a great deal for the club owners, doesn’t it?  They get a band and customers for that night, and have to pay very little if anything. But what they don’trealize is that this is NOT in their best interest.

 If you want great food, you hire a great chef…It needs to be the same with the band. You hire a great band and should expect great music.

Running a restaurant, a club, a bar, is really hard. There is a lot at stake for the owner. You are trying to get loyal customers that will return because you are offering them something special. If you want great food, you hire a great chef. If you want great décor,you hire a great interior decorator. You expect these professionals to do their best at what you are hiring them to do. It needs to be the same with the band. You hire a great band and should expect great music. That should be the end of your expectations for the musicians. The music is another product for the venue to offer, no different from food or beverages.

When a venue opens it’s doors, it has to market itself. The club owner can’t expect people to just walk in the door. This has to be handled in a professional way. Do you really want to leave something so important up to a musician? This is where the club owner needs to take over. It is their success or their failure on the line, not the musician. The musician can just move on to another venue. I’ve played places where, for whatever reason, only a few people have walked in the door on a Saturday night. The club owner got mad at me, asking, “where are the people?” I turned it around on him asking the same thing? “Where are all the people? It’s Saturday night and your venue is empty. Doesn’t that concern you? What are you going to do about it?”  Usually their answer is to find another band with a larger following.This means the professional bands get run out of the joint in favor of whoever can bring in the most people.

But here’s where the club owner doesn’t get it. The Crowd is following the band, not the venue. The next night you will have to start all over again.

Eddie Mechanic, who has slaved all week fixing cars at the local dealership, also plays guitar. Not very well,but he’s been practicing once a week with Doctor Drummer, Banker Bass Player, and Salesman Singer. Usually they just drink beer between rehearsing a few tunes in Eddie’s garage, but this week they answer a craigslist ad and line up a big gig. Well they don’t sound that good, but they sure all work with a lot of people everyday. All these people can be given a flyeron Monday and after being asked ”are you coming to my gig?” everyday all week, will most likely show up on Saturday night. So mission accomplished, the club owner has packed his venue for one night.

But here’s where the club owner doesn’t get it. The Crowd is following the band, not the venue. The next night you will have to start all over again. And the people that were starting to follow your venue, are now turned off because you just made them listen to a bad band. The goal should be to build a fan base for the venue. To get people that will trust that you will have good music in there every night. Instead you’ve soiled your reputation for a quick fix.

I think we as musicians need to fight back. Sure You can get mad about it, but that won’t do anything.We could all agree not to play those for the door gigs, but you know that isn’t going to happen. But what we can do, is explain to the club owner that it’s not in their best interest to operate their business like this. There is too much at stake for them not to be truly interested in the music presented in their venue. Convince them that if they think that live music is important to the demographic that they are trying to reach, then they need to reach out to that demographic in a professional way. [Read "HOW TO NEGOTIATE WITH A VENUE THAT SAYS THEY CAN’T PAY YOU"]

If you asked a club owner, ”who is your target demographic?”  I doubt they would answer, “the band’s friends and family.”  But yet clubs operate like it is.

Would you expect the chef’s friends and family to eat at your restaurant every night? How about the dishwasher, the waitresses, the hostess? You see, when you start turning this argument around, it becomes silly.

Another example, I answered a craigslist ad for a nice looking place in Beverly Hills. The ad read… ”looking for a high energy jazz band, if you can bring the band and have a following, I will put you on stage.” That logic seams to say that they think musicians in a jazz band know lots of people living in Beverly Hills. And the people those musicians know, have lots of money to spend. Those are two pretty big assumptions. Good luck finding the combination. Even if you find that combination, are you going to find it every night?  Friends and family of a professional musician won’t come out that often. They can’t. This is what we do every night. Would you expect the chef’s friends and family to eat at your restaurant every night? How about the dishwasher, the waitresses, the hostess? Or how about the club owners friends and family? You see, when you start turning this argument around, it becomes silly.

I’ve started arguing with club owners about this. It happened after I played a great night of music in LA. We were playing for a % of the bar. There were about50 people there in this small venue, so it was a good turnout. At the end of the night, I go to get paid, and hope to book another gig. The club owner was angry.  ”Where are your people?” he asked.  ”All these people, I brought in. We had a speed dating event  and they are all left over from that.”  I pointed out they all stayed and listened to the music for 2 hours after their event ended. That was 2 more hours of bar sales, because without us, you have an empty room with nothing going on. He just couldn’t get over the fact that we didn’t walk in with our own entourage of fans. Wasn’t he happy that we kept a full room spending money? Right when we were talking, a group of people interrupted us and said ”you guys sound  great, when is the next time you’re playing here again?” The club owner, said ”they aren’t, they didn’t  bring anyone.”

I went home that night bummed out and sent him an email telling him most of what you are reading here and how his business model and thinking is flawed. After a lot of swearing back and forth, because I’m guessing that musicians never talk to him as a business equal. He eventually admitted that what I was saying made sense. BUT, that’s not how LA clubs and restaurants work. And he has bands answering his craigslist ads willing to do whatever it takes to get the gig. It’s been a couple of years now since that conversation. I called his bar, and the number is disconnected.

So there you go, LA club and restaurant owners.The advice is free. But you’ll most likely ignore it because ”that’s not how it works”. But if more musicians kept telling them the same thing, perhaps it would start to sink in.

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Dave Goldberg is a professional jazz musician and is one-fourth of The Dave Goldberg/Duane Allen Quartet. For the past fourteen years, Goldberg and Allen have performed throughout the entire South Florida and Los Angeles areas to critical acclaim. The Dave Goldberg/Duane Allen Quartet currently have five CDs released with Tritone Records.

grassrootsy   |  Bookings - finding/getting, Contributed Articles, Making Money, Uncategorized, Venues   |  02 22nd, 2012    | 
← Older Comments
  • Blue322

    Well-said, Buck!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Goldberg/1635978726 Dave Goldberg

    No, you aren’t getting it. If the bar is “professional” and business is going so well for them, then they wouldn’t need the band to bring 25 people to “justify” paying $75. They would either want live music for their customers or they wouldn’t. Anytime a venue demands that you bring a minimum of people, that means they don’t have enough of their own. I would argue that the wine bar is acting just as desperate as the 3 musicians agreeing to play there for $25 each (it was a trio for a total of $75). They didn’t care how good you were, just how many people you can bring to their bar. Would they offer cheap wine, badly prepared food, a bartender that doesn’t know how to make a drink? I would hope not. So why so careless with music? What makes the quality of music so unimportant that you don’t need to pay for it? Don’t fool yourself, just because a wine bar has 4 walls and a roof, doesn’t make them professional. I’ll also assume that you took the time to listen to my music on my website before calling it crappy. Sorry you didn’t like it. Hey it’s jazz, it’s not for everybody.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Goldberg/1635978726 Dave Goldberg

    LOL That’s awesome. As funny as this comment is, there is some truth to it and it’s an argument that gets made quite a bit. If we were all the absolute best at what we do, we wouldn’t struggle for gigs. But what level are we talking here? For jazz, you better be THE best saxophonist in the world. Yes in the World. If you are that much better than everyone else, you won’t have to worry about working. There is a reason that Chris Potter’s schedule is way more busy than mine. But what if you are just very good? Is there room for musicians who are very good? An audience isn’t usually going to see “the best in the world” in small intimate venue. But an audience should get the opportunity to see “very good” up close in an intimate venue. Lots of times that experience can be more real and enjoyable, than say seeing U2 in the last row of the Rose Bowl. Going back to that $25 wine bar story. I didn’t do that gig. I’m guessing the band that did wasn’t very good. Thus whoever was there that night didn’t get to listen to “very good” and had to listen to “wasn’t very good”. “Very Good” stayed home that night. I know lots of “Very Goods” out there, and they are also staying home rather than playing for no pay.

  • grassrootsy

    ditto!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jamieb9 Jamie Berger

    I’ve read this a couple of times now, mostly posted by artists on Fbook. and I do understand that it has some validity, especially in cities. But, as an owner of a tiny venue in a tiny town in Western Mass., I could also write a letter (heck, I could write a trilogy) to/about bands who don’t promote their shows, or who book shows one town away the day before or after a show they’ve already booked with me, and thus the venue is left paying a sound person, a door person, and two bartenders (who aren’t getting tips either, that night) and two cooks, not to mention the rent, the heat . . . when there aren’t as many audience members in the house as there are band members. I’d be glad to switch roles if you take on my credit debt, artists!

  • http://twitter.com/themercyband The Mercy

    Fantastic Article! And we have come across this a few times but we stick to our guns and don’t play at those venues and try to choose a venue that is close enough to make them realize what a mistake they made :) all good fun!

    All the best,

    Dan
    The Mercy

    http://www.themercy.co.uk

  • grassrootsy

    Well said, Jamie! Artists need to step it up! Which brings me to a very short post we published several months back: http://www.grassrootsy.com/2011/11/14/what-if-1

  • Umbrellas1000

    I perform music for kids to make my living but I’ve done a zillion adult shows too in the folk-rock scene mostly in Chicago. There’s actually quite a scene going on here in the city with kids concerts in bars/clubs in daylight hours, but the bar gig is a risky one for me since there’s no usually no guarantee or flat fee…it’s all based on tix sales and I gotta pay out my band. The bar show is not the type of show I want to do solo. (although I do plenty of solo gigs elsewhere).

    Most Chicago bars do a percentage of the door…a good gig will pay 75-80% of door after paying out sound person. Which is fair, I think. Anything less than that is too big a risk for me. I do like to play the bars, though, and I try to spread them out to once every couple of months.

    One suggestion for an artist is to try and negotiate the cover charge. I think it’s better to try and lower the cover charge to get more folks in, rather than have a high charge and risk people not coming. Every city/town has it’s average rate of what folks will pay. In Chicago, $5-10 is the average for tix price at a bar–for kids shows. I always think about CD sales too. Again, if folks are only dropping 5 bucks to get in, they may be more apt to buy a CD on their way out.

    The higher profile the club, the more money they’ll have to spent on advertising/marketing. Also, a club that has a monthly series (say a folk series, a kids series, etc) usually has a good following, so it’s something to consider if they come in at a lower door percentage. My ticketed shows are the ones I do the most marketing for…more postering, flyers, social media, etc.

    I guess I’m used to being expected to bring an audience. It’s all a gamble. I’ve had shows were a ton of people said they were definitely coming and then didn’t show, and then had others like a month ago, I played the day after a huge blizzard and thought no one would show and it turns out it sold out!

    Chicago is a great music community. As artists, we all try to help each other out and are supportive of each other. At least in the folk-rock world that I live in! – LD

  • me

    I believe dave has a good point..my family has been musician for 6 generations.and the problem I musicians don’t stand up and yes there are unions for musicians and they used to work but nowadays there are so many who will take a cut to get a gig and don’t wanna pay a unions so bars and venues stop dealing with our unions which pushes the professional musician out in place of garage bands who learn three chords and wanna. Be famous.. me I do pretty well for myself I usually book places for 250 for my solo act and 6 or 7 for a band but that takes a lot more travel and finding the places known for their quality it still doesn’t make me rich but I get by and feed my family I send the venues high quality posters and the pdf to print more if needed and I promote all over the internet but really its also up to the venue to promote they are gonna get a lot more people with a add in the paper or a add on the radio and the bars that do make out a lot better and need to relize you only get out of something what you put in and its up to BOTH the venue and the act to promote but that’s just what works for me…if you wanna be professional be profesional its a buisness on both aspects

  • grassrootsy

    Word of the day “YOU ONLY GET OUT OF SOMETHING WHAT YOU PUT IN” Thanks for your thoughts.

  • bird13

    I’ve been in the LA music scene since the 60′s. When I started I was always paid a reasonable fee for my services by every venue in town.If they didn’t pay, the musicians union had some clout and would talk to the truck drivers union and they would not deliver the alcohol to the bar if they were stiffing their musicians. Since the demise of the musicians unions influence, the pay has disappeared. Musicians need to organize again. We have laws that protect us from fraudulent behavior from many parts of society, but presenting amateur musicians every night at most the clubs on the Sunset Strip is a fraud perpetrated on the ignorant public. Unfortunately for musicians the listening public is so uneducated about what music is and has been that now they will accept almost anything offered to them and think it’s actually music.
    In the past if you sang and played out of tune the audience heard it and booed. Now they don’t even notice that the singer isn’t even in the same key as the band and worse still is that they don’t care. Ignorance is bliss. Since the arts are no longer part of education, you can convince the uneducated public that something is art when it is actually trash. Just like our food. People eat crap fast food and poison themselves every day and think that what they are eating is good, when it’s actually making them into a fat pig. Just like they listen to bad music and musicians and think it’s good.
    At this point in time the Herd rules, and the Herd doesn’t give a damn about music, art or even their own health.
    History will repeat itself and the next roaring twenties aren’t far off,
    I’m sure were in for lots of big changes in the near future, I just hope they are positive for musicians and artists of all kinds.

  • Doite

    spoken like a hobbiest who only need two gigs to keep his hobby. This is a career for professionals, we can’t gig just twice a year

  • Doite

    told ya…for you its a hobby, for professionals its a career. How would you like to go to school for law and find out that lawyer hobbiests think that all lawyers should be hobbiests and only work 1 or 2 cases a year

  • Doite

    The real problem is how to spread the word about the exploitation of musicians without aggravating the hands that feed you i.e. the venues.

  • Gfink2

    That’s not how I read his posting. Doesn’t seem like most of the postings below read it that way either. What happened to your venue?

  • Fred

    On the issue of how much an act gets paid, I don’t think anyone can ask for the same amount in a guarantee if they’re playing on the East Coast vs the West Coast if they’re a touring act of any size. The cost of living is a lot higher on the east coast than it is on the west coast, minimum wage is higher there than it would be in say Florida or Arizona. Moving from the North down to the south in any job you will take a pay cut because of many reasons(if its a right-to-work state, or if it caters to the elderly). States west of the mississippi are right to work states, the cost of living is lower, and your wage is usually going to reflect that.
    With that said, a lot of touring indie bands out there often have different and mixed feelings when they play in the western half of the states if they’re from the east. You take more of a cut in pay, while bands that are from the west that play in NYC can make a lot more money playing in front of the same amount of people that they would’ve in Portland. You make more money on the east coast because if you’re paying $1,000+ a month for rent in a slummy area you’re probably making a wage that can afford it. Its fairly common to see good apartments for $500 in AZ or up in Oregon(where I’m from originally). I’ve had to take nearly a $2/hour cut in pay for the exact same job when I moved down south with my regular job and when playing music I’ll still make the same ratio when playing shows down here and up there.
    I hope that makes sense, but the economy is very different all over the united states. The cost of living is different in all the regions of the states, just because you can get a $400 guarantee in NY, PA, NJ (for example) doesn’t mean you can get that in OR, WA, CA, AZ, etc…
    I think people should be more conscious of that when they’re booking a string of shows in an area of the US that they’re not very familiar with. Factor in how affluent that part of town is. Even if you’re playing at a great venue that really gets the music scene and packs the house every night, you might not make that same amount of money as you would back east because a dollar goes further in some places than it does in others. Just compare it to gas prices across the country, then you’ll know how much to ask for, lol

  • Jamesanthony

    The biggest problem is the weekend warriors doing gigs for beer and wings..they have good paying day jobs and don’t need the money.We full time players have to count on it.I like the old days when the agents wouldn’t book the part timers.

  • Mrhdbnger

    This is a real and disheartening trend. My last band had a small following, mostly middle-aged couples who drank top shelf cocktails. At the end of the night the til rang up just as well as the previous weekend and the garage band with the frat boy following who drank tap beer and Jager bombs and barfed in the bathrooms but they had filled the room and that is all that mattered to the club owners. I re-formed the band in a new town and this time I made sure that the other guys had friends because the handful that followed me from gig to gig back at home just weren’t enough. Each guy has to have a handful of friends who will come to every gig. If you play more than an hour from home you are out of luck because even your best buds won’t drive an hour to drink somewhere and risk a long drive home. The one that boggles my mind is the festival bookers act the same way. It seems to me that the festival is the draw and if the band is good they would see it as an opportunity to give their festival goers a great show. No, they expect the band to being in festival attendees. It is always about draw. You know how you get draw? You play cheesy, generic pop crap.

  • Mrhdbnger

    You are right. I used to go to the same rock club every weekend because it was the happening place to see the best local bands and the national touring has-beens and tribute bands. It wasn’t a Mexican restaurant with room for a trio in the corner. It was a full on rock club on two levels…no disco. If the national act downstairs sucked you simply went up to the packed house for the local band. I played both rooms and have great stories and fond memories. Things have changed. Those clubs don’t seem to exist any more.

  • Pingback: grassrootsy» Blog Archive » Pros & Cons of Playing No-Cover Shows

  • Fortemusicpro

    Can you say open mic night? If we like you you can play again for tips!

  • http://www.facebook.com/bill.bua Bill Bua

    Hey Thomas, Yo are an idiot!

  • Jsw13

    Check this site out. It has EVERYTHING to do with the topic. A good start up plan in Portland. They get it. Fairtrademusicpdx.org It is union backed BUT isn’t that what we’re all about…joining together as one? It won’t work otherwise.

  • Pbbc2

    extremely thought provoking and somewhat dis-heartening, especially for the itinerate muscians out there. what seems lost is the position of a promoter I remember them as being connected and in tune with the scene. They booked they advertised heck they even played roadie and band manager if necessary. All to convey the image of hip. Then the internet era arrived and vehicles like craigslist and myspace rocketed part time amatuers to the ranks of professional industry backed groups, this perhaps has stunned the former promoters some are regaining consciousness some were ready adopters. I remember clubs and other places having promoters, and watching as friends bands dealt with their “negotiations” (think “our” house band). Strangely the radio station which used to play a roll in what was in is now “out” (sorry Cassie Cassum or Ryan Seacrest or who ever it is now). With Pandora I can enjoy my own version of a heavy rotation, or with LastFm I can enjoy finding nuggets of un heard bits and discovering new bands (that didn’t have a good slot or promoting or Label). I will be seeing fIREHOSE in Santa Cruz soon they havent toured in almost a decade. The era of the Dream Gig is changing and will forever. The sad truth is most restaurants if they make it past a year will be lucky to net 3% profit (a truly bad investment unless you plan to loose money) the average net for a successful place is maybe 5% for the owners. So for a $100,000 investment they should be dancing to your tunes with $5000 in their pockets after a year if they are still open. Bad for everyone involved. Mind you, those that suceed in the restaurant/club business usually only do so by being cut throat and cutting corners. Thank you for a very enlightening article, I read it as a repost by Michael Wecker one of my very dear and oldest friends, He is a Muscian father firefighter and businessman and I know that he has never be properly compensated for his hours of practice and devotion to his craft of percussion.

  • Nathanpease

    I think it makes perfect sense for a band to take responsibility for getting people to their shows, especially if they are getting the money at the door. If you want to be paid more money, attract more people to your show. You will get more receipts at the front door. At the venue I work at, the bands are guaranteed a certain amount and receive anything above that amount at the door. Want more money? Attract more fans.

    And why would a venue want to hire a band that isn’t concerned about creating a larger fan base? If the band is too lazy to collect email addresses and alert fans to when they will be in town, how does a band expect to acquire a following? I know bands that don’t even tell the audience the name of the band. All they have to do is put up a banner behind the band, and yet they wonder why no one knows who they are.

    Why should the venue shoulder the responsibility for giving you more fans? If a band works at creating a following, that makes for making the band happy AND makes the venues happy.

    Not all venues are alike and not all communities are alike. You can’t suggest that one way of working is the correct way for all venues.

  • gfink2

    It’s quite interesting to read the continuing comments on this thread. I agree with the original posting, and in fact I put my foot down finally and both my bands now book gigs with guarantees only, with rare exceptions such as venues with proven followings of their own where you can always expect an audience (and yes they exist all right), or house concerts (and even some of those have guarantees). This means there are certain venues we don’t play and would never even consider it. At the same time, it also sets up an expectation. We are worth something. We don’t bother with clubs that rely on the band for everything. Those of you saying “stop crying, promote”, I don’t think you understand the point. This isn’t about you or your band per se. It’s about what venue owners have learned – that they can screw naîve young musicians.

    I have in the past played plenty of venues where the place had a large crowd that stayed most of the night, then I got handed chump change by the manager at the end of the night. “We don’t charge the regulars” is in fact a regular excuse, one that I refuse to hear ever again. I have 7 gigs on the books right now and there’s only one where good money isn’t guaranteed.

  • LASquared

    No kidding on the festival people, makes me sick.

  • sherry lee

    i totally hear ya. i shudder to think my grandson is now entering into that world and will have to deal with that. you should consider if entering into music, to aspire to a field that truly pays such as orchestras. or teaching. out of 350 million people only 2400 get to be in the nfl. now consider that music is world wide, and you can imagine your chances of getting media exposure. sooooooo……i suggest that music should be something you do because it is what you do. if you really want to make the money, own the venue. that’s where the money is. just saying….sherry lee

  • Rtblues

    Right on, and yeah, Bill’s right, Thomas, you are indeed an idiot.

  • Rkelley40

    My mom always taught me that it is a poor rat that only has one hole!!!! It is a KNOWN FACT that most “clubs” these days DON’T pay well and musicians are still whining about it.That won’t change anything, and all that ego “crap” about “professionals ” vs “hobbyists” is just that..Crap. I know Many many many “hobbyists” that can play some of these so-call pro’s under the table. It does not matter how you refer to yourself, this is life and the point is we all gota eat and many have to take care of families. If a club owner does not want to pay my price, then the hell with him. Because I made it my point to get and education and another “pot” to draw from. What are you going to do whine you life away about a situation you will not change. There will ALWAYS be some “lesser” band that will pay for less..So WHAT!!! Make your own way, REMEMBER, the club owner did not go into biz for the musician..so why are you depending on him for your success??? There are many ways to make money in this biz, but many are to damned lazy to pursue them, instead will whine about the clubs. ARE you recording?, selling your own music? Are you building your own fan-base and booking the venues yourself.Are you make connection with Radio stations(real and internet ones) Don’t forget we live in AMERICA and somethings value is determined by what someone else will pay for it!!! NO I am not and have never been a club owner. I am A musician!! and a good but I also know the reality of the matter. With today’s technology..everybody can get in the game, whether they are good or not. So “we” must rise to the top and do the things needed for OUR Success!!

  • centipedefarmer

    Then play some neighboring towns too.

  • Jggalligan

    Amen, and thank you. The problem of solidarity among the larger musician/performer community still exists, however, making this an issue with no positive resolve anytime in the near future. Musicians unions don’t have the kind of power to influence an outcome, and karaoke is still widely popular. There will always be major club venues like the Blue Note in New York that feature music as the main attraction, as opposed to food and drink. But the average bar and restaurant, as you pointed out,does not run this way. Maybe other venues need to be explored; even invented. Just as there are food co-ops in cities and towns all across the country, maybe the same model could be employed for the performing arts, for example. I think there will have to be an effort on the part of musicians and other performing artists to expand beyond trying to convince restaurant and bar owners to enact a different business model. Just imagine if something like this were successful. Quality acts would be fairly compensated, and average clubs wanting to employ such acts would have to pay the fair market price to get them. This of course would not eliminate the hacks who are willing to play for nothing; resulting in a continuance of the exploitation, but would still be a huge improvement over the old model. In order for this dismal situation to change for the better there needs to be a huge shift in the way we think. It will never be perfect, but certainly has the potential to be a lot better. The place to start might be establishing this conversation on the national level, and keeping it there.

  • Anonymous

    I want to re-post a post from below:

    “Nathanpease

    I think it makes perfect sense for a band to take responsibility for getting people to their shows, especially if they are getting the money at the door. If you want to be paid more money, attract more people to your show. You will get more receipts at the front door. At the venue I work at, the bands are guaranteed a certain amount and receive anything above that amount at the door. Want more money? Attract more fans.

    And why would a venue want to hire a band that isn’t concerned about creating a larger fan base? If the band is too lazy to collect email addresses and alert fans to when they will be in town, how does a band expect to acquire a following? I know bands that don’t even tell the audience the name of the band. All they have to do is put up a banner behind the band, and yet they wonder why no one knows who they are.

    Why should the venue shoulder the responsibility for giving you more fans? If a band works at creating a following, that makes for making the band happy AND makes the venues happy.

    Not all venues are alike and not all communities are alike. You can’t suggest that one way of working is the correct way for all venues.”

    I agree 100%.

    I am a musician and a former bar owner, so I’ve been on both sides. When I’m trying to make money at either venture I know one thing above all: complaining about MY likes & dislikes is fruitless and infantile. I need to be more concerned with my CUSTOMERS likes & dislikes. Professional musicians WORK at their profession. Bands & musicians come and go with the wind, bars & clubs need to make profit to survive. Quit complaining, gather a fan base, prove yourself, be professional, and MAYBE you’ll never be in need of a gig. Lastly – every musician isn’t going to make it, you might need to ‘get over yourself’ and face reality (and reality sometimes sucks). Good luck to all!

  • Anonymous

    If you cannot stand on your own, join up with a group of people who also can’t stand on their own? Some kind of “Losers propping each other up” scheme?

    I tend to think it will ONLY work otherwise, not like that at all. The cream of the crop rises to the top, the rest join together and remain on the bottom.

    There are a lot of reasons why musicians unions disappeared. A lot more reasons why they aren’t coming back. Good luck with it.

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